Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 2 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Public Perceptions...
09-26-2006, 07:34 AM,
#1
Public Perceptions...
I thought there were some good thoughts being shared on this forum just before the hackjob lost it all on us. So I wanted to start this topic back up. I really liked the last post Corey had made on this topic prior to the crash, hopefully he can respond again in a similar manor (if he can remember what he said last time).

Below is a portion of a news clip I stole from yesterday's Edmonton Sun to stimulate this conversation & hilight some un acceptable behaviour which (as we know) isn't limited to the Edmonton area...


...A man who owns and operates a paintball park at 130 Avenue and Meridian Street (Edmonton) said he wasn't surprised at the news someone was found dead nearby.

"There's a lot of unfriendly traffic," said Calvin Pereira of Players Sports Park.

Since he set the 47-acre park up two years ago, his office has been broken into and all his equipment stolen - and he's replaced five front gates.

Four-wheel drive and ATV enthusiasts continue to tear around on his property, he said.

The property is lined with "no trespassing" signs, but they have little effect. Someone once even tried to pull his front gate down from inside, pulling it apart with a winch.

"When I first took over, I took nine 40-cubic yard bins of garbage out of here," said Pereira.

The former locksmith had big plans for one large portion of the park he'd levelled and seeded with grass.

But it now sits a muddy, rutted mess, torn to shreds by people trespassing on his land. He said that a few times he's even come to blows with trespassers.

He has 24-hour security patrolling the area now, but the vandals still get in.

"When I took the property over, my friends asked me if I'd found a body yet," said, adding Saturday's grim discovery was "definitely too close for comfort."


Kind of a sad indictment for sure, and a public black eye that no one in the organized 4wd community needs. Too many "ass-clowns" for sure. We have our own fair share of similar abuse on private property as well as public property within the city & county. Come on, it can't get any lamer than driving through green spaces, parks, roadside ditchs, gravel pits... it's not like we are short of good trails we can legally access. /rant Evil :x

Any suggestions towards stopping the stupidity?

--Ken
Quote this message in a reply
09-26-2006, 08:08 AM,
#2
 
Ok, here is approximately what I said before the hack-job.

This was in response to what I had been reading on here about public relations, Jeeps stuck in rivers, etc.

---------------------------

The only way, I believe, to really seperate "us" from weekend wreckers, hooligans and drunk drivers with 4x4's is of course, by our image.

But who are we? How do the cops know the difference between an off-highway club that is environmentally sensitive and conscious, and concerned about the sustainablility and perpetuation of back country access.........and a bunch of punks with trucks?

Membership - that's how. When you run a TNT sticker on your rig - it means something. I have talked to local RCMP at various times and I get the same response each time: They know we are a club, they know we have "strict" rules about membership, and they know we aren't the ones they find sunk in the river or out in the dunes drunk. It's very uplifting each time I ask one about us.

The TNT sticker was designed to be bold on purpose. It's safety orange puts you in a different class than guys who happen to own a big 4x4. It says that you belong to an organization that actually gives a giggle. It's an in-your-face reminder that the guy next to you in traffic with an orange diamond sticker belongs to an elite group. A group that is difficult to belong to.

This is why every time I hand them out, to people that satisfy the requirements, they come with a little speech. Because the stickers reflect on all the guys that run that same sticker.....we are considered a unit by most people, which is good but slip-ups in PR can effect us all adversely. This is why I've requested in the past that the stickers be removed from vehicles which are being sold to non-members....not critical but something to consider.

In the last 5 or so years, TNT members have been very good at setting themselves apart from the local punks and wreckers. Keep it up, it's worth it and here locally, it's working.
PITBULL TIRES: http://pitbulltires.com/

Bilstein Shocks

PSC Steering

Poly Performance

Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-26-2006, 08:15 AM,
#3
 
Quote:Kind of a sad indictment for sure, and a public black eye that no one in the organized 4wd community needs. Too many "ass-clowns" for sure. We have our own fair share of similar abuse on private property as well as public property within the city & county. Come on, it can't get any lamer than driving through green spaces, parks, roadside ditchs, gravel pits... it's not like we are short of good trails we can legally access. /rant

Any suggestions towards stopping the stupidity?

I don't know that we can stop them. Just set ourselves apart in our actions and visually using club decals.

Maybe we need to raise our public profile. I know that many locals have never heard of us. I'm unsure whats better, to be a bit "covert/discrete" or be more visible to the public as far as our existence.
PITBULL TIRES: http://pitbulltires.com/

Bilstein Shocks

PSC Steering

Poly Performance

Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-26-2006, 08:16 AM,
#4
 
Thanks Corey, well said! Perhaps we could "sticky" this topic at the top of this thread... ?

--Ken
Quote this message in a reply
09-26-2006, 10:27 AM,
#5
 
On behalf of TNT, I called SRD this morning in Grande Prairie and had a great chat with their head of operations for the Peace Country Area.

He was actually very pleased I called, and he had heard of TNT, but was unsure if we were quad guys or Jeep guys or what. He stated that this area needs more groups like us, and that groups like ours do a lot for him and his guys as far as the whole PR thing goes. He likes our code of ethics on the website, and the fact that we are organized and very much into sustainable wheeling. He is into quading himself, and likes that as a group we stand together against the hooligans and wreckers. Our approach is the right one basically.

He is forwarding this website to all the members of his group.

Any wheeling pics that are deemed questionable will be deleted immediately by the moderators on the open forums.
PITBULL TIRES: http://pitbulltires.com/

Bilstein Shocks

PSC Steering

Poly Performance

Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-26-2006, 11:46 AM,
#6
 
It is true that we can't stop all the thugs that call themselves wheeler's and you guys make an excellent point about being in a responsible club, that's why I have actually suggested on a few of the more local (to me) forums that some responsible wheelers go for a round of paintball and heal some of these PR wounds. Dunno if anyone is going to go for it though.
J.C. Mahan
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-26-2006, 12:16 PM,
#7
 
YJ_and_Corey Wrote:On behalf of TNT, I called SRD this morning in Grande Prairie and had a great chat with their head of operations for the Peace Country Area...

...Any wheeling pics that are deemed questionable will be deleted immediately by the moderators on the open forums.


Great move Corey, anything that has SRD looking on us with favor is a good thing. One of my long term goals, over the last 30 years of fourwheeling & for as long as I can continue health wise, has been and continues to be responsible sustainable recreation in our awesome Alberta outdoors, this includes fourwheeling, quadding, hunting, sledding, dirt biking & for that matter river boating. Abuse in any one of these recreational activities can result in lasting damage which all too often in the past has led to loss of access to some of my favorite areas.

--Ken
Quote this message in a reply
10-04-2006, 11:05 AM,
#8
 
(dumb q's, whos' SRD??)

I understand now where you guys are coming from with certain pics, I will try to keep any questional pics to myself from now on. I have thought about the 'mud trucks' around town lately. I think if I could afford it in the near future, I will plan to buy a 1/4 section of land and use a part of it for a large mud park. This would definitly help to cut down on people driving on others land. Instead of driving around to 'find' the mud, they would just have to slide on over and let'r rip. There would be a nominal fee for upkeep, and recovery equipment. I would do an annual fun run event, no compitition, just a fun weekend of play time. Location would be a key thing, so I'll be keeping my eyes open for a decent 1/4 closer to town.
1979 F-250, D60s, detroits, 4.88s, 39.5 Boggers, 532ci bigblock, C6, NP205

Its all about going FAST
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-04-2006, 11:43 AM,
#9
 
Quote:(dumb q's, whos' SRD??)

I understand now where you guys are coming from with certain pics, I will try to keep any questional pics to myself from now on. I have thought about the 'mud trucks' around town lately. I think if I could afford it in the near future, I will plan to buy a 1/4 section of land and use a part of it for a large mud park. This would definitly help to cut down on people driving on others land. Instead of driving around to 'find' the mud, they would just have to slide on over and let'r rip. There would be a nominal fee for upkeep, and recovery equipment. I would do an annual fun run event, no compitition, just a fun weekend of play time. Location would be a key thing, so I'll be keeping my eyes open for a decent 1/4 closer to town.

It's not that we are against "mudding" at all, we are against "people who happen to own 4x4's" ruining an image we work hard to keep. In fact, mudding is great - on crown land, on established trails/seismic lines/pipelines/quad trails, where it belongs.

SRD stands for Sustainable Resource Development - the governing body that oversees fish and wildlife, environment, dept. of lands, forestry, etc.
PITBULL TIRES: http://pitbulltires.com/

Bilstein Shocks

PSC Steering

Poly Performance

Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-04-2006, 12:04 PM,
#10
 
SRD is Alberta Government, Environment Department, Sustainable Resource Development devision, they are the folks charged with control of roads, water crossings, and much more they carry with in thier mandate the ability to designate land use restrictions up to and including complete closure of access.

Some prime areas of our province that have been covered under such land restrictions that I am familiar with include, Kananaskis, Sheep River/Elbow Lake, Panther River, Ya-Ha-Tinda, Ram River, Kakwa Lake... there are more that slip my mind at this moment.

--Ken
Quote this message in a reply
10-04-2006, 12:07 PM,
#11
 
Corey types faster than I do... must be all that university edjamacation! Lol shocked
Quote this message in a reply
10-04-2006, 06:40 PM,
#12
 
Unless there is a clear road, or set of tracks that have been around for a while, Tread Lightly! That's the way I feel. Sometimes a new trail must be blazed, but a field with a trail thru it looks better than a mud field with a patch of grass in the middle. Same for creeks, rivers and forest, if the damage stays minimal, we all can enjoy.

Dmonkey

2003 WJ for groceries, 2005 LJ Rubicon for family wheeling, 2015 Power Wagon for making money, 1989 MJ for working on, 20xx Ultra 4 buggy for dreaming and leaning on.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-22-2006, 11:38 AM,
#13
 
Ken raises a good question, what can responsible folks do to help stop the carnage that WILL limit our access? I know what my quick answer is but I don't think "taking people out to the middle of nowhere and leaving them for dead" is politico, unfortunately. Join TnT, join NA4WDA, educate yourself and others. I just had a "heated discussion" with two assclowns in 3" body lifted jeeps parked in the middle of the Athabasca, emphasis on "heated". I don't know how many times I've run into drunks on quads this summer, cruising along with open beers and too drunk to stand (honey, fetch my squirelling rifle...). I am willing to do anything to not get lumped in with loogans like this yet sometimes I get the same look from people when driving "Madge-nta" that I do when I walk my bully dog (Gator the wonder dog). People are quick to categorize and I'm starting to do that with quaders now...apparently I'm a hypocrite! shocked Rant out.

G
...the reason a dog has so many friends is he wags his tail instead of his tongue...
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-06-2007, 08:28 PM,
#14
 
YJ_and_Corey Wrote:It's not that we are against "mudding" at all, we are against "people who happen to own 4x4's" ruining an image we work hard to keep.

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. There are a lot of people out there that think since they have lifted their "whatever they have" and spent big money on the BIGGEST GNARLIEST tires they can stuff under it that this gives them the right to rip up whatever lies in front of them with absolutely no concern about the next person in line. They think that since they have a 4wd it MUST be covered in mud all the time.





YJ_and_Corey Wrote:In fact, mudding is great - on crown land, on established trails/seismic lines/pipelines/quad trails, where it belongs.

Mudding to me implies lots of wheelspin, high rpm and 30 pound clumps of mud flying through the air. Not a great way to keep a trail system open.

The days of this are past and I am thinking it is time to go with a less aggressive set of tires and maybe use my winch a little more in the tougher spots instead of rolling up my right pant leg so I can get the last few rpm out of it for a top fueler type pass through a hole. If it rains maybe I'll stay home and work on my junk instead of tearing up the trails. Getting sick of mud as I get older anyway. Be a lot of drier days later I'm sure to go trailriding on those same trails later, starting to get more patient as I get older too. Lol
02 Dakota Quad Cab
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-08-2007, 11:53 AM,
#15
 
Quote:Getting sick of mud as I get older anyway

So are we.

When I said a year ago, that "mudding" was great - I was not referring to "bogging".....

Bogging - we are totally against. Bogging is redneck bullshit foot to the floor reckless abandon for the environment.

Mudding
- we enjoy at times, it's simply wheeling in terrain that is wet and muddy. Hard to avoid mud in Alberta in the spring time, whenever you are.
PITBULL TIRES: http://pitbulltires.com/

Bilstein Shocks

PSC Steering

Poly Performance

Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-13-2007, 10:32 AM,
#16
 
I have one question that is up for debate. I know that the nud bogs are not everyones thing around here. But do you think having these organized events help keep the more responsible wheeler out of the mud holes in the bush, or attract more guys to them?? I know that when I do get a chance to talk to some of the drivers, I stress the importance of getting there mud fix at the event rather then on the trails. Wether they agree or disagree is up to them but maybe they'll stop and think about it next time they head out.
I like to think that for the most part, the 'mud boggers' keep there rigs for events only as a competition vehicle rather then a trail killer. I don't spend near as much time on the trails as I use to, my truck is heavy, large tires and big power, all great for wheel spin not for crawling. So I tend to stay away from the softer stuff and use it more for competitions. Keeping the trails alittle more rut free, and fun for the other guys that use them. I'm sort of a fish out of water on this site, but trail closures should be a concern for every aspect of wheeling, so I'm just hoping that these events will help and not hinder this frigile situation.
1979 F-250, D60s, detroits, 4.88s, 39.5 Boggers, 532ci bigblock, C6, NP205

Its all about going FAST
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-06-2007, 01:39 PM,
#17
 
Good topic, Not only is there people not treading lightly there is also a lot of people littering which also results in trail closures. I find it is getting worse every year, not sure if people are making more money now and can afford the toys. Or is it the younger generation and large city kids were not taught the ethics that we were, which may be the result of parents working lots to make the big money. Seems like a lot of this generation wasn't even taught their please and thank you's, so how many were taught to care for the environment? The reason I say this is because in the past when I have confronted people about littering or trail abuse they seemed oblivious to what they were doing. Ask them "who is going to pick that up later?" or "do you like the trails? Cause if you keep littering the trail will be closed" I also let them now that due to small city lots, many people use the outdoors for their backyard, "you don't like garbage in your backyard do you?" Then there's the 50/50 chance whether they reply like an ass clown, or are receptive and realize their wrong doing. I found keeping my cool even when they don't is always better results.

This year alone I have confronted people on 2 different locations to pick up their garbage/empty bottles. One guy tossed an empty whiskey bottle, because I worked with him I tore him a strip up one side and down the other. He was oblivious, then he had to walk into the bush and get it. The other occasion was just some guy I seen while wheelin and I seen him tossing beer cans, so I stopped and explained my dislike. His response was I probably never went there before I had my jeep, WRONG. Last year I rode 1200miles on my sled and 1400 miles on my bike.

As long as they pick it up that time is still better then them not picking it up at all., and hopefully some of them learn.
'89 YJ, 383 stroker, NP205, SM465, D60 & 14bolt w/ Detroits , steering assist, 44" super swampers, Warn 8274, 4 wheel disc, rear 4 link
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-06-2007, 11:26 PM,
#18
 
mud bogs are good enjoyable to watch and realy good for purpose built rigs like yours. Probly a good idea to keep those rigs away from the trails. Like was previously stated the trails are plauged with redkneck or whomever f**kers who total abuse the whole concept. I see know good future for wheeling in the area to much trail abuse and garbage and crap. Things have to change or sh*t will be closed down, tougher rules will be imposed and make it harder for people like me who just want to get out away for drive in the bush.
77 cj 7 (sold)
1991 yj
this that and what the
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-06-2007, 11:37 PM,
#19
 
Ya, what Dennis said?

Dmonkey

2003 WJ for groceries, 2005 LJ Rubicon for family wheeling, 2015 Power Wagon for making money, 1989 MJ for working on, 20xx Ultra 4 buggy for dreaming and leaning on.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-29-2009, 02:42 PM,
#20
Re: Public Perceptions...
If I may...

I am not a 4x4 guy at all. I own a Journey and as much as I like it I do not think it would do well in the type of terain you guys do your 4x4ing in. However I also have no problem at all with people who do 4x4, or quad or hunt ( different topic there) or pretty much anything really. The trick is to respect the enviroment, respect no trespassing signs and don't be a general all around ass.
The question posed here was basically " how do we seperate ourselves from the ass clowns?"
The answer is quiet simply, groups like yours. You have your rules and regulations and expect them to be followed. Perhaps an artical in the paper about your group would help? Not sure it the Grande Prairie paper has a community groups section but it might be worth checking out.
Exposer is the key, but it comes at a price. When more people know about you then more people will want to join. You will have to be even more vigulant for the people who are looking to cause trouble.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply


Forum Jump: